Yes, you read that right!! For a very long time, we've been in the dark when trying to locate the date the movement was manufactured. Following a year of working on this problem a 'best guess' answer has emerged.
This is my best guess at how to date a men's Caliber and lady's caliber movements. The serial number, only 4-digits long, seemed useless Please read the "Identify Your Gruen! It's another bit of data to be added to your watch's "date set", in this situation the Movement Manufacture Date.
This is getting more common as hobbyists are repairing and restoring vintage Gruens now. This has been great for the community as more running Gruens are entering the market daily.
From a statistics standpoint, this practice is disastrous. It takes away one ability to find the date of a vintage Gruen. So, before you swap out your movement, think about repairing, please! It is for this reason that the Movement Manufacture Date is not valid when used in a solitary manner.
You need more dates. One caliber movement date is not enough to accurately date a Gruen Curvex watch. There is ONE loophole But you better be damned sure it's not been monkeyed with. Decoding Gruen case and movement serial numbers has been a multi-year, team effort.
I have a pocket? The watch I have been able to ID Elgin , I am interested in the Case There is a 5 point star in the middle of the back of the case with two circles ot smaller stars surrounding. There is also a circle of small stars on the front around the cae of the watch.
I belive the watch belonged to either my Grandfather or his wife - He was a Mason, she belonged to Eastern Star and I am wondering if the case was specifically made for one of these groups. I do have a picture but have not been able to figure out how to post it. Thank you carol. Dec 9, 0 16 Stockholm, Sweden Country Region. The case is probably not made for this or these groups, it is a Wadsworth gold filled case and the model is Pilot, guaranteed to wear 20 years. I think the circles and stars are the Wadsworth trademark markings, being the case number.
Pictures, there is a button "Manage attachments" under the message window, press it and you will get options to upload your picture, there is a maximum size so you might need to make the picture smaller to start with. If you are still having trouble posting a picture I can help you if you send it to me: MichaelChristiansen bredband. Thank you! Robert Sweet Registered User. Apr 29, 3, Country. Michael, It appears the stars are on the outside of the back cover.
Robert, of course! It seems that I read some posts as the devil reads the bible! Kent Gibbs Literary Award. Aug 26, 18, 2, Country.
Encyclopedia article helpful. Your case may be Wadsworth design number Perhaps if you tell us the serial number on the movement the "works" we may be able to tell you more about it than you've found to date.
Last edited: Jan 8, Sorry if my terminology caused confusion! Inside front cover: I believe this to be the Wadsworth serial number. Inside back cover: Inside of inner back cover: P Please ask if you have any questions. Oct 26 May 16 Tags: 25yr , antique , case , double , hunter , only , pilot , pocket , wadsworth , watch Add comment.
This beautiful case is just the start to and amazing. Time piece in the right hands. This is an Estate find, therefore I have no history on this item. I try my best to research each item to the best of my ability and describe imperfections as I see them. All items are either wiped clean or cleaned ultrasonically when appropriate.
These Charges are the Buyers responsibility. Jan 03 Posted by admin in wadsworth. Tags: case , display , hamilton , pocket , salesman , wadsworth , watch Add comment. Unmarked Yellow Gold Filled Case. Sure to dress up your favorite B movement or any lever set 16sz American Movement for that matter. Screw on and off Bezels no snap on ones that fall off or you crack the crystal putting them back on.
Please see all the pictures — clear pictures that allow you to use the zoom feature to see minute detail. Pictures with bezel and back lid off and on. I often collect authentic examples but not necessarily original examples, where some other people only collect original examples. If you bought it from the great-great-granddaughter of a U. But of course, there are a lot more movements than there are cases because in times like today, when gold is at a very high price, the premium for having that gold made into a watch case is not all that high over the value of the gold itself.
McIntyre : I think so. If you look at the activity on places like eBay, you see a lot of watches changing hands and a fairly large number of people doing that. Clocks have a lot of appeal because five people can sit around in a room and look at a clock. We have groups around the world besides the association itself that actually collect the watches and clocks. McIntyre: I first got interested in collecting pocket watches when I was around 30 years old, and I think we still get a lot of people starting to get interested at that age.
The average age of our members is probably getting close to 60, so we need to get younger ones interested. When my wife and I got married, we went to live in Spokane, Washington for a year. Then we moved to Parkville, Missouri for two years.
Then we lived in Los Angeles for five years, and then we moved to Canada for two years, then West Virginia for nine years. Inside the covers of the case will be trademarks and hallmarks and things like that, so good pictures of those are needed as well. With that kind of information, you can tell somebody a lot about the watch.
You can find some information for the more recent ones after , but not as much as on the early ones because the companies stopped keeping as good of records.
One of the things NAWCC would like to do is make a global serial number database that you can type in the serial number. The people there are very helpful and would be happy to tell somebody what they have. That applies to clocks, wristwatches, pocket watches, European watches, American watches, clocks of all kinds. McIntyre : Certainly at the dealer level — the people that buy, sell, and trade them — deal in both wrist and pocket watches, but mostly the two are pretty specialized.
Wristwatches are mostly bought for style reasons, whereas pocket watches are mostly bought for technical reasons. So you need to know two different kinds of things in order to be able to deal effectively in them. You push down on the little button at the top, the crown, and the cover opens up and you can see what time it is. That was a popular style from around to around , for about a hundred years.
But it got displaced by the open face. The open face style existed before that, and the hunting case style disappeared probably close to They still made them after that, but the bulk of them were made before You have to figure out which side is the front side and then you have to push the button.
The idea behind them was that you could carry a hunting case watch in your pocket and it was less likely to have the crystal broken or the dial damaged. The other reason for it is that they were a heavier piece of gold, and people like them just for the feel of them.
The other big difference is that the way the mechanism was laid out in a key wind watch, you could case a key wind watch in either a hunting case or an open face case, the same movement. It just depends on where you drill the holes for your winding and setting keys. From to as they were developing these new watch styles, the first thing they did was make key wind watches because it was easier.
The first kind they made were hunting case watches because it was easier to make a key-wind watch into a hunting case watch than it was to make a key wind watch into an open face watch. Most of the ones that you will see are from that period from around until The bulk of the watches during that period have closed faces — a hunting case.
Howard Company, which is a very prominent company as well. Those are really quite collectible. There were major collectors that collect only Howard. They were located in Roxbury, Massachusetts, and then in , they merged with a watch case company and moved to Waltham, Mass.
Only two fairly large companies, Howard and Waltham, were in Massachusetts. There were more watch companies in Illinois than there were anyplace else. So you had Elgin and Illinois and Rockford were all pretty significant companies that were in the Chicago area, within 50 miles of Chicago.
That was a fairly large company. Those are the big ones. Buy lots of books first and then buy some watches later. You really needed to do the studying and the reading to find out what else you need to know. Buy fewer better ones rather than buying lots of cheaper ones.
McIntyre : About In fact, a lot of people that are into watches and clocks are in it for the craft rather than for the collecting. They have relatively small collections, but they work really hard on their individual pieces, getting them in really good shape.
Wadsworth Watch Case Co. Below is an excerpt from the Bulova section of the 'United States Horological Trademark Index' copyrighted material : Based on that information, there can be little doubt that Bulova used the American Standard name, and early Bulova watches bearing that signature--either alone or along with the Bulova name--are legitimate.
Unknown model - Model 'B' - Unknown model - 10A, 16 jewel movement date code on movement Movement signature: Bulova Watch Co. Treasurer - 10P, 15 jewel movement date code on movement Movement signature: Bulova Watch Co. The following is an example of the shield symbol seen on the back of some mid-to-lates Bulova watch cases: Jonell Watch Case Inc. Jonell trademark symbol, as published Jonell signature on a Bulova watch case solid gold Bulova watch case bearing 'Apex' signature, along with Bulova signature.
Apex cases have also been seen on very early s solid gold models Star Watch Case Company The Star Watch Case Company was known to make some mid-century military issue cases for Bulova and other watch manufacturers, and those watches bear the Star signature and trademark symbol inside the case, while the Bulova name is printed on the outside of the case back.
Inside case back of Bulova-made military-issue model AA Outside case back of Bulova-made military-issue model AA Inside case back of a jewel dress model Outside case back of a jewel dress model Note the star symbol Inside case back of waterproof model Outside case back of waterproof model Outside of waterproof model showing star symbol on Bulova signed case On this example, the Star signature does not appear elsewhere on the case Late Model Case Signatures Some Swiss made Bulova models, particularly in the s and throughout the s, include symbols or initials, along with the Bulova signature, which are likely indicative of a Swiss case maker.
Catalog of Actual Case Signatures Below are the Bulova case signature configurations found in my collection. Swiss'; outside: no signature seen only in stainless steel and chrome Magellan Inside: 'Stainless Steel Swiss' and the two character date code; outside: 'Bulova Watch Company Inc. Swiss'; outside: no signature seen only in Stop Watch Inside: 'Bulova, New York'; outside: 'Bulova' seen in one 14k solid gold model dated Inside: no signature; outside: 'Bulova' seen in all but three models between and Inside: no signature; outside: 'Bulova Watch Co.
The McIntyre Watch Co. From the Jon Hanson collection. Collectors Weekly: Why did they change the name to Waltham? Collectors Weekly: Before that, were people making pocket watches in America at all?
Collectors Weekly: Once Waltham introduced precision manufacturing, how did the quality of the watches change? Collectors Weekly: Who were some of the major pocket watch manufacturers? Collectors Weekly: Did all the major manufacturers make railroad pocket watches? Collectors Weekly: Does the watch movement determine collectibility?
Collectors Weekly: How many jewels there are in the mechanisms? Collectors Weekly: With pocket watches, what else determines rarity besides scarcity? Collectors Weekly: When pocket watches were still being made, how often were they coming out with new models?
Collectors Weekly: What is the grade? Collectors Weekly: What attracts you to a pocket watch? Collectors Weekly: Are pocket watches still pretty popular as a collectible? Howard Co. Star Watch Case Company The average age of our members is probably getting close to 60, so we need to get younger ones interested. Collectors Weekly: Are there steps to identifying a pocket watch or is there a taxonomy of pocket watches?
Collectors Weekly: Is there an overlap between pocket watch and wristwatch collectors? Collectors Weekly: What about hunting case versus open face watches?
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